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Thread: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

  1. #1

    Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    It has been at least 5 years since I have really given a darn at configuring any of my pc's software or operating systems to be optimized, longer still perhaps that I've gone through their registry to play with what little things here and there that I could do away with and ultimately, I have no idea where to begin again.


    What are the software progams that are out there that are the most desirable to keep a PC running great?

    Back in the day, it was a combination of SpyBotS&D, AdAware, and AVG. Times have changed and it seems those programs have all become bloatware in one way or another.


    My PC is running quite well, but I would like to go through the 3 office PCs that my wife has burned through in he past 6 years, and make them work again.

    Also, if such a thing exists (why it never ocurred to me, I don't know), I would love some sort of a system organizer. Something that could go through every directory and find ever JPEG, ever BMP, every MP3, you name it, and tell me where it is, what it is called, etc.

    Back in the days of DOS, "X-TREE" was beautiful at this, but it has been decades since I'd even thought of that program, and god forbid that Microsoft ever should wisen up and put DLLs all in their own same diectory, let alone optimize directories to work in such a way as similar to the compartmentalization under the hood of a car.

  2. #2
    Mr. Angsty Spice
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    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    Back in the day, it was a combination of SpyBotS&D, AdAware, and AVG.
    AVG is still considered one of the best AV's out there. Rated higher than many commercial products even.
    For Spyware, still think fairly highly of MalwareBytes. One of the other Tech's in our office has a different anti-spyware he likes. I'll try and remember to ask him tomorrow what it is he uses.


    Something that could go through every directory and find ever JPEG, ever BMP, every MP3, you name it, and tell me where it is, what it is called, etc.
    Window key + f ; *.jpg <enter> set it to display details;

    god forbid that Microsoft ever should wisen up and put DLLs all in their own same diectory, let alone optimize directories to work in such a way as similar to the compartmentalization under the hood of a car.
    associated DLL's usually are grouped together. Windows DLL's would be under the various folders under "c:\windows\"; Office DLL's are going to be grouped in C:\program files\Microsoft\Office*\, etc.

    I really wouldn't recommend moving DLL's from their installed location, Performance gains would be minimal at best, and at worst you could completely FUBAR your system.
    If you really want to improve performance on an Older system, slap an inexpensive SSD in it, install windows/Important programs to that - keep your conventional HDD for Data storage.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA2W02KJ5977
    Just an example.
    I've got beer to drink and You guys are wasting my time.

  3. #3

    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    These days id go the cheap SSD route for the core system drive. Newer versions of windows have far less services you can safely kill and still be fully functional. I remember I got win2k down to like 100mb of RAM once And it would still run EQ fine.
    "When you name your baby Jeeves...you've pretty much set up his career for life. You don't see many Hit Men, for example, named Jeeves. "Pardon me sir, but I must wack you now."
    — Jerry Seinfeld

  4. #4

    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    Quote Originally Posted by Melcar View Post
    I really wouldn't recommend moving DLL's from their installed location, Performance gains would be minimal at best, and at worst you could completely FUBAR your system.
    I won't ever do it.

    Back when Windows 95 first came out, I'd heard from a number of people in my father's office that the boss (who is a neat freak) immediately went through the entire computer moving every file in the Windows and Windows/System directory into compartmentalized directories; C:\Windows\DLL \COM \EXE C:\Windows\System\reg \DLL

    You name it.

    It was beautiful, the way my 14 year old brain began wondering why Microsoft didn't bother doing such a thing with their architecture - but that is the difference between the two desks of a software engineer and a secretary.

    I won't ever do i. I would just love it if software engineers would do it. It would really make everything easier if they went that route.


    Kudos on he CTRL+F. I certainly figured that somewhere in my brain, but sort of hoped there was a better integrated system for doing it out there.

    I guess I just need to learn how to program and make something that people might be interested in.

    I'll look into getting an SSD for this computer. It is a notebook, so I believe I'm limited to only one.

    I need to build another desktop soon.

  5. #5
    Mr. Angsty Spice
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    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    Back when Windows 95 first came out, I'd heard from a number of people in my father's office that the boss (who is a neat freak) immediately went through the entire computer moving every file in the Windows and Windows/System directory into compartmentalized directories; C:\Windows\DLL \COM \EXE C:\Windows\System\reg \DLL

    You name it.
    Yeah, that's some OCD shit.

    and I've seen people do that too... and usually I saw it because they were calling me to fix it, because they completely FUBAR'ed their system.

    the way my 14 year old brain began wondering why Microsoft didn't bother doing such a thing with their architecture
    Because it doesn't matter?
    Think about it this way, the file system (folders etc) you see, doesn't necessarily correspond in any meaningful way to the hard drive geometry. Just because the files sit next to each other in a folder, doesn't mean they'll be close to each other on the physical disk platter.


    It would really make everything easier if they went that route.
    Easier for who? People who shouldn't be messing with that stuff to begin with?
    I've got beer to drink and You guys are wasting my time.

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    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinthalas Tigris View Post
    It was beautiful, the way my 14 year old brain began wondering why Microsoft didn't bother doing such a thing with their architecture - but that is the difference between the two desks of a software engineer and a secretary.
    They tried. That period was affectionately known as DLL Hell.

    It was a period when only some of your apps would work because you loaded a program that updated your dll, but that newer dll wasn't compatible with an older program. Thankfully it was killed in the crib before it spread too much.

  7. #7

    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    Quote Originally Posted by Melcar View Post
    Yeah, that's some OCD shit.

    and I've seen people do that too... and usually I saw it because they were calling me to fix it, because they completely FUBAR'ed their system.


    Because it doesn't matter?
    Think about it this way, the file system (folders etc) you see, doesn't necessarily correspond in any meaningful way to the hard drive geometry. Just because the files sit next to each other in a folder, doesn't mean they'll be close to each other on the physical disk platter.


    Easier for who? People who shouldn't be messing with that stuff to begin with?
    Actually doesnt defragmenting actually put the files closer to where you think they should be? Or is that more it knows where a program should be and puts its related data on nearby tracks so the head does not have to swing as far to seek.
    "When you name your baby Jeeves...you've pretty much set up his career for life. You don't see many Hit Men, for example, named Jeeves. "Pardon me sir, but I must wack you now."
    — Jerry Seinfeld

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    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    Or is that more it knows where a program should be and puts its related data on nearby tracks so the head does not have to swing as far to seek.
    This. Disk writes are "Random Access". So when you initially write to the disk your "File allocation tables" {yes, i know old term} would say oh, there's an open block here. And now one over there. and ok one over here.
    This is where the file fragmentation comes from because it doesn't necessarily care "where" the data is on the disk, as long as it can find it again.
    I've got beer to drink and You guys are wasting my time.

  9. #9

    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    Quote Originally Posted by Melcar View Post
    This. Disk writes are "Random Access". So when you initially write to the disk your "File allocation tables" {yes, i know old term} would say oh, there's an open block here. And now one over there. and ok one over here.
    This is where the file fragmentation comes from because it doesn't necessarily care "where" the data is on the disk, as long as it can find it again.
    The interesting thing I find is since I went to SSD for my primary drives, my magnetic drives are rarely fragmented. I know SSDs never need and should never be defraged but I suspect its because with my magnetics now being storage they get written to and accessed in a more orderly fashion. Where as your OS drive is always adding and removing temp files based on current operational needs I imagine that is the primary cause of fragmenting.
    "When you name your baby Jeeves...you've pretty much set up his career for life. You don't see many Hit Men, for example, named Jeeves. "Pardon me sir, but I must wack you now."
    — Jerry Seinfeld

  10. #10
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    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    Where as your OS drive is always adding and removing temp files based on current operational needs I imagine that is the primary cause of fragmenting.
    Yes, that's exactly right.

    I know SSDs never need and should never be defraged
    and that's because SSD's have limited read write cycles.

    which a Defrag will use up relatively fast. (as it does the same thing, move sections of files to temporary locations, then move them to another location that may or may not also be temporary in order to move them to another location.) While at the same time, performance losses from fragmented files are considerably lessened, because you don't have a physical "head" that has to move from position to position.
    I've got beer to drink and You guys are wasting my time.

  11. #11

    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    you know I think I have the perfect analog for how a hard drive works...

    Those "we park" airport lots where they store your car off property. When you pull up the guy loads your car into a nearby spot that is open. And then during off time they "defrag" the lot and shift the cars into the order based on when they will be needed.
    "When you name your baby Jeeves...you've pretty much set up his career for life. You don't see many Hit Men, for example, named Jeeves. "Pardon me sir, but I must wack you now."
    — Jerry Seinfeld

  12. #12

    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinth
    DLLs, COMs, each in their own directory
    Quote Originally Posted by Melcar View Post
    Because it doesn't matter?
    It depends entirely on your frame of reference.

    Think about it this way, the file system (folders etc) you see, doesn't necessarily correspond in any meaningful way to the hard drive geometry. Just because the files sit next to each other in a folder, doesn't mean they'll be close to each other on the physical disk platter.
    That is not the reason for which I would respect it to have been designed and implemented in that way.

    Easier for who? People who shouldn't be messing with that stuff to begin with?
    In part.


    ________

    In general software programming, objectivity is defined solely by the parameters of its own continuum.

    It doesn't matter to the computer whether you put a registry file in a directory called "Registries" or in C:\, so long as every reference within that registry points to the correct path and location.

    It also doesn't matter to the computer whether you put all your baby's pictures in a folder called "Baby Pictures" in your "My Documents" folder or in your C:\ root if you want to bring them up to browse them, so long as you know that you saved them to C:\ root.

    However, in the case of the latter, if you were to call your wife, and say, "Click on My Computer, Then click on My Documents. Then click on Baby Pictures and e-mail me the file babybooboo.jpg," in most cases, would have an easier time in doing so than saying, "Click on My Computer. Now click on C Drive. It says, C Colon back slash. Yeah. Now scroll down to the bottom where it starts listing files that begin with b. No, not the yellow folders. Those are directories. No, we're looking for something ending in jpeg," etc etc, so on and so forth.

    This is a simple example of user creating a logical user pathway for proper use of the computer and its operating system. It is implied that this is how it should be used by the ground work given to the user in the form of the My Documents/Pictures and its surrounding edifice.


    ____

    I'm not saying that the way it is designed is a failure. I'm simply stating that pushing software engineers and designers to go that extra step for the design of the software machine as a whole gives a level of detail that makes itself more impressive AND approachable to those that could learn to appreciate it more - Let's face it, one of the biggest complaints about "Lusers" in the rants is that they don't bother to approach the understanding of their PC.


    ____

    Steve Jobs, in some ways, was considered a nut for trying to develop a software/hardware analog to Carpentry and Architecture. People thought he was crazy. They said that the two had nothing in common, and that a carpenter could hide poor craftsmanship behind finish work because no one would ever see it, and those who would, would never care. But he learned such meticulous natures from his father, who WAS a wood worker, and imparted it with the strict message that going that extra mile was a testament to the care that went into the entire product for those who WOULD see it, so that they would realize that every bit of wood, tooth, drop of blood and nail was there with an elegant purpose.

    _____

    Jobs was a nut. His own method of finding perfection was often his fault for downfall. But it was STILL related to every single one of his successes, and that alone is my entire feeling behind the idea of craftmanship at every single level.

    _______

    Quote Originally Posted by Eremius View Post
    They tried. That period was affectionately known as DLL Hell.

    It was a period when only some of your apps would work because you loaded a program that updated your dll, but that newer dll wasn't compatible with an older program. Thankfully it was killed in the crib before it spread too much.
    I'm not familiar with this.

    I'm sure that path mapping had a problem, and it would require redesign from the ground up, and then backwards mapping of paths, registries and nearly everything else if one were to try and upgrade an existing system, but even so. Torch it and rebuild.

  13. #13

    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    Quote Originally Posted by Melcar View Post
    and that's because SSD's have limited read write cycles.
    Well, that kills the idea of having exclusively an SSD on my laptop, then.

    What is your opinion of the new Solid State Hybrid Drives? (I think they have 8gig of Solid State with a specially designed cache indexing system, and then the rest is platter).

  14. #14

    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    Quote Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker View Post
    you know I think I have the perfect analog for how a hard drive works...

    Those "we park" airport lots where they store your car off property. When you pull up the guy loads your car into a nearby spot that is open. And then during off time they "defrag" the lot and shift the cars into the order based on when they will be needed.
    Depending on he Hard Drive, there is a one way road that fluctuates its direction, and depending on the manufacturer, it can "cache" stop points for cars in different locations to go one direction or another while greater volumes of cars that are on longer paths to and from their drop off points stay in their
    forward moving direction.

    ___

    The one that I always used was Elevators in a building. You have ussuaally one, and sometimes two elevators, and 40 floors in the building. Each elevator can only handle so many passengers, so when he HD is virgin, it loads all data on every floor until each floor is full and then moves onto the next floor.

    THen when data needs to move from floor to floor, the elevator figures out what kind of passengers travel to which floor the most and handles groups of them at a time which it feels it can optimally fit into the elevator the best (at a ridiculously high rate of speed).

    WHen there are two elevators, the elevator that handles permanent moves of data moves slower from bottom to top to bottom to top compared to the elevator that moves patterns of passengers from and to each floor they are expected to arrive and depart from.

  15. #15

    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinthalas Tigris View Post
    Well, that kills the idea of having exclusively an SSD on my laptop, then.

    What is your opinion of the new Solid State Hybrid Drives? (I think they have 8gig of Solid State with a specially designed cache indexing system, and then the rest is platter).
    Not at all, they are great in Laptops.

    Its the way defrag works that eats away at read write lifetime.

    Modern operating systems should disable defrag for SSDs, As they never would need it anyway since they can access any point in the storage instantly.
    Last edited by FilanFyretracker; March 20th, 2015 at 07:29 AM.
    "When you name your baby Jeeves...you've pretty much set up his career for life. You don't see many Hit Men, for example, named Jeeves. "Pardon me sir, but I must wack you now."
    — Jerry Seinfeld

  16. #16
    Elder Arcanist

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    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinthalas Tigris View Post
    Well, that kills the idea of having exclusively an SSD on my laptop, then.
    Reads aren't limited, writes are.

    The number of writes is more than most people will achieve in the lifetime of their hardware.

  17. #17
    Mr. Angsty Spice
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    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    It doesn't matter to the computer whether you put a registry file in a directory called "Registries" or in C:\, so long as every reference within that registry points to the correct path and location.
    Yes, that was my point. I'm not quite sure what yours is?


    However, in the case of the latter, if you were to call your wife, and say, "Click on My Computer, Then click on My Documents. Then click on Baby Pictures and e-mail me the file babybooboo.jpg," in most cases, would have an easier time in doing so than saying, "Click on My Computer. Now click on C Drive. It says, C Colon back slash. Yeah. Now scroll down to the bottom where it starts listing files that begin with b. No, not the yellow folders. Those are directories. No, we're looking for something ending in jpeg," etc etc, so on and so forth.

    This is a simple example of user creating a logical user pathway for proper use of the computer and its operating system. It is implied that this is how it should be used by the ground work given to the user in the form of the My Documents/Pictures and its surrounding edifice.
    Yeah, it's called Symbolic Linking.
    ? Again, not quite sure what your point is?



    Reads aren't limited, writes are.
    Yes sorry - I misspoke.
    I've got beer to drink and You guys are wasting my time.

  18. #18

    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    familiarity is why we still have the whole concept of drive letters on windows systems, I imagine we do not actually need a C drive any more but people are just so familiar with letter drives.
    "When you name your baby Jeeves...you've pretty much set up his career for life. You don't see many Hit Men, for example, named Jeeves. "Pardon me sir, but I must wack you now."
    — Jerry Seinfeld

  19. #19
    Mr. Angsty Spice
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    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    familiarity is why we still have the whole concept of drive letters on windows systems, I imagine we do not actually need a C drive any more but people are just so familiar with letter drives.
    the concept of the C: drive may still be buried somewhere deep in the OS level that might be problematic to get out. All other drive letters though can be done away with at this point; NTFS can mount into an empty folder so instead of having a D:
    You could have for example a c:\data\

    which would mount the separate physical disk - completely transparently.

    edit: and I should add even if C could be done away with as a drive letter - some label to ID it to the system and or user is still going to be required.
    Linux/Unix for example use something like /dev/sda1
    where in windows it would be c:\
    Last edited by Melcar; March 20th, 2015 at 01:59 PM.
    I've got beer to drink and You guys are wasting my time.

  20. #20

    Re: Windows 7 Organization / Opimization

    Quote Originally Posted by Melcar View Post
    ? Again, not quite sure what your point is?
    It is a manner of personal opinion. I am not arguing that there is not any need. THere is not any need what so ever.

    It is the difference between a plumber piping a house with pex at service ends as opposed to copper, or having an access point already installed behind a shower as opposed to cutting into drywall or stucco.

    For the person who shouldn't be in there, there are ways to hide it, but making it beautiful for the person who needs to get in there, is a testament to beautiful craftsmanship.

    I'm not saying that it isn't navigable. One learns how a system operates in order to operate on it, but designing a system from the ground up to appear beautiful makes it artistically and architecturally beautiful.

    Yes sorry - I misspoke.
    What is your opinion of SSHD vs SSD? Obviously the SSD would be quicker, but I would like the convenience of getting a 1tb sshd with a 16 gig ram/ssd cache on it, perhaps - if it is viable.

    Reviews seem to go both ways, and the opinions seem to be open to algorithms by manufacturer.

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