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Thread: 3D Printers

  1. #1
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    3D Printers

    Do any of you use/have one of these already? I've been researching them for a while now as it is the next thing I want to get for my home lab, but the ones over the price range I am budgeting for are not quite at the resolution I am wanting.

  2. #2

    Re: 3D Printers

    I think they will take awhile to hit the quality most people want. Right now the affordable ones like the Maketbot really are terrible resolution. However I do forsee a day when just like the color laserjet printers were once tens of thousands now you can get them from several companies for a few hundred. I figure 3D printing will go the same way unless some regulatory bullshit comes down on them(there are big companies in huge amounts of fear of 3D printing, Even though it will revolutionize how people get small widget parts).

    After all NASA has printed functional rocket parts, However to get a NASA grade 3D printer you would have to mortgage the whole neighborhood.
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    Re: 3D Printers

    Our company just bought a crazy expensive commercial prototyping machine. Its the type that have the object in a polymer bath that lasers harden a layer then the object descends for the next layer. Its pretty cool.



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    Re: 3D Printers

    Quote Originally Posted by Danenel View Post
    Our company just bought a crazy expensive commercial prototyping machine. Its the type that have the object in a polymer bath that lasers harden a layer then the object descends for the next layer. Its pretty cool.

  5. #5
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    Re: 3D Printers

    A friend of mine has a machine shop, and he bought one within the last year. I'll try to get his opinion and specs on it.
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  6. #6

    Re: 3D Printers

    So I've got a curiousity about 3d printers.

    I've never worked with them myself, and I have only a limited understanding of them. I know that for industry they are just fucking awesome, both for real-time modeling and for the tool/part maker, but I've got some basic curiousities.

    How expensive are the materials that are printed? Are they more expensive than say, printer ink? How much does each "print" cost? What modeling programs are capable of interacting with these things? Is AutoCad fine? or does each printer have a proprietary software or similar?

    For my questions, I would be using the example of the ever-so-famous AR15 extended clip that was getting a whole lot of press coverage after one of the more recent shootings.

    How much does something like that cost to print (assuming the printer is already owned, and paid off). Is it profitable to have one of these 3d printers, to make tools and parts from them and then sell them to the general public? or is it better to use something like this to make a model and then ship off to china for they to make molds, etc etc?

    I would love to break into this, myself, and possibly make some custom pieces for cabinetry and what not - something where resolution and grade would not be as precise as modeling or tooling - but only if it wasn't too ridiculously expensive.

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    Re: 3D Printers

    I want one just to be able to create every single warhammer miniature and not spend thousands of dollars

  8. #8

    Re: 3D Printers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ialnyien View Post
    I want one just to be able to create every single warhammer miniature and not spend thousands of dollars
    when home 3D printing reaches the same quality and price point and quality as a good home Color Laserjet, Games Workshop is boned. WH minis will be an enormous hit on the pirate sites. You can bet the .blend files will be all over The Pirate Bay. Right now extrusion machines are honestly crap for any thing more than trinkets. But some of the technology that is currently only in the realm of NASA will one day be on the desktop printing parts and pirated tabletop figures. Many industries will be destroyed by high level home printing but then again technology marches on.
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    Re: 3D Printers

    Quote Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker View Post
    when home 3D printing reaches the same quality and price point and quality as a good home Color Laserjet, Games Workshop is boned. WH minis will be an enormous hit on the pirate sites. You can bet the .blend files will be all over The Pirate Bay. Right now extrusion machines are honestly crap for any thing more than trinkets. But some of the technology that is currently only in the realm of NASA will one day be on the desktop printing parts and pirated tabletop figures. Many industries will be destroyed by high level home printing but then again technology marches on.
    It's all about evolution of the market. Now is the time that anyone with intelligence at gw should be planning for this and moving to an intellectual / service based store. Equip your stores with the printers, do a small profit on printing, but make your money on the books, paints, and table top features. Instead you will just see litigation left and right

  10. #10

    Re: 3D Printers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ialnyien View Post
    It's all about evolution of the market. Now is the time that anyone with intelligence at gw should be planning for this and moving to an intellectual / service based store. Equip your stores with the printers, do a small profit on printing, but make your money on the books, paints, and table top features. Instead you will just see litigation left and right
    It will likely be just like the entertainment industry vs the internet. Even today they are lagging behind what the customer wants(global distribution, no regional lockouts, available any time, any where on any device)

    Which is sad because 3D printing could make table top gaming more accessible and as such more profitable. Lots of people I have talked to who are geeks have not gotten into it because of the entry level cost of miniatures to build a respectable army. If the local comic shop/game store/geek store could run figures off on demand like one gets copies at a Kinkos prices could be driven down. Or they could even sell the 3D files for a reasonable price.

    But yes odds are we will just see lawsuits. And they will find a way to DRM the miniatures too, So that for official competition people will need to have non printed units with an RFID chip or something. to which will just kill official competition and they will blame piracy just like any other IP owner does... Because its never bad business decisions...
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  11. #11
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    Re: 3D Printers

    There are already Warhammer(-like) bits up on Shapeways, but it still hasn't really caught on a larger scale. There are signs up things changing though, as the marked for 3rd party created bits has grown a ton.
    Still I am pretty positive about the future of the hobby, as long as I can directly pay artists like Jes Goodwin and then have the product printed at home, at a local club or store.
    I have serious doubts that GW will be able to change fast enough as this technological development makes it more and more likely that everyone can share and print designs.

  12. #12

    Re: 3D Printers

    paying the artists directly would be great and I am sure they support the notion.

    I doubt GW will move fast enough. Why Innovate when you litigate seems to be the business mantra of 21st century when it comes to IP owners.
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    Re: 3D Printers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ialnyien View Post
    I want one just to be able to create every single warhammer miniature and not spend thousands of dollars
    Yep, that is one of my use cases, except in the context of making nice miniatures for my D&D games. Without making the figure pretty large though it requires a moderately expensive printer to get all the minor details with nice resolution. And outsourcing the printing adds up as well as having a much slower turn around time.

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    Re: 3D Printers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ialnyien View Post
    It's all about evolution of the market. Now is the time that anyone with intelligence at gw should be planning for this and moving to an intellectual / service based store. Equip your stores with the printers, do a small profit on printing, but make your money on the books, paints, and table top features. Instead you will just see litigation left and right
    In the end game of 3D printing, I foresee designs being readily shared like with code. We see this to some extent with open hardware, which has not arrived at what kind of licensing makes sense the most yet. Is it more like code or more like documentation? The frequent litigation will likely push the sharing to an medium immune to litigation and take downs in the long term like we have seen with e-books, research papers, and some of the less forward thinking publishing houses.

  15. #15

    Re: 3D Printers

    Hollywood is also in on the "Kill 3D Printing" crowd, They have actually stated a fear that people will start to print out movie stuff that they would normally buy from overpriced licensed brands.

    But again no technology should ever be held back in the name of preserving any industry. But I have to wonder if there will be a lobby to cripple home fabrication just like the RIAA did to DAT.
    "When you name your baby Jeeves...you've pretty much set up his career for life. You don't see many Hit Men, for example, named Jeeves. "Pardon me sir, but I must wack you now."
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    Re: 3D Printers

    Quote Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker View Post
    Hollywood is also in on the "Kill 3D Printing" crowd, They have actually stated a fear that people will start to print out movie stuff that they would normally buy from overpriced licensed brands.

    But again no technology should ever be held back in the name of preserving any industry. But I have to wonder if there will be a lobby to cripple home fabrication just like the RIAA did to DAT.
    There definitely is and will continue to be. Such a lobby is irrelevant and will be steam rolled by international culture that gives zero fucks about curmudgeons that want to rape society as evidenced by the response to the RIAA and the music industry stalwarts continuing to burn.

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    Re: 3D Printers

    And an example, and coming from an organization that has a lot of support from the very community it is fucking: http://traverseda.wordpress.com/2014...munity-design/

    Shit like this is why I am so jaded and give zero fucks that China ignores US patents/copyrights.

  18. #18

    Re: 3D Printers

    I think patents as we know them today are close to dead. First off China does not care, India does not care, emerging economies do not care.

    India for example if they have a badly needed drug and the western company will not license their UHC a reasonable price they just authorize a domestic company to make it.

    Software patents are also another nail in the patent system coffin they have caused people to have ever decreasing faith in the system, Look and Feel patents will scare away innovation. I mean imagine someone makes that 100% awesome remote control desired in the Kabillion Dollars thread and then gets sued for Kabillion dollars by Apple because they had some obscure patent for "Software defined device for the control of home electronics". Innovation is stifled by patent now because patent is so damn broad, We need to return the system to people having to show physical proof of a functional device to the patent office, And make it so only physical things can be patented.
    "When you name your baby Jeeves...you've pretty much set up his career for life. You don't see many Hit Men, for example, named Jeeves. "Pardon me sir, but I must wack you now."
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    Never Forget those who gave it all ten years ago.

  19. #19
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    Re: 3D Printers

    I got a hold of my friend - he says it's a MakerBot Replicator 2 that he's bought.
    He likes it, it's not extremely precise, and it needs to be guided very thoroughly if the cycle time goes to 15-20 hours. But it's easy to maintain and service
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  20. #20
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    Re: 3D Printers

    Quote Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker View Post
    I think patents as we know them today are close to dead. First off China does not care, India does not care, emerging economies do not care.

    India for example if they have a badly needed drug and the western company will not license their UHC a reasonable price they just authorize a domestic company to make it.

    Software patents are also another nail in the patent system coffin they have caused people to have ever decreasing faith in the system, Look and Feel patents will scare away innovation. I mean imagine someone makes that 100% awesome remote control desired in the Kabillion Dollars thread and then gets sued for Kabillion dollars by Apple because they had some obscure patent for "Software defined device for the control of home electronics". Innovation is stifled by patent now because patent is so damn broad, We need to return the system to people having to show physical proof of a functional device to the patent office, And make it so only physical things can be patented.
    I really wish you would stop focusing on Apple in that regard as it ignores the cause for that behavior by companies and that this is not specific to Apple, in particular patent trolls are much more egregious and harmful to innovation. And not that I think it should be patentable in the first place, but look and feel patents make more sense as a trademark or copyright than a patent IMO. In my ideal world patents and copyrights do not exist however.

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