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Thread: Smart Phones

  1. #61
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    Re: Smart Phones

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    Thanks for the heads up. I'm definitely not looking for anything top end at all. A friend asked me what I wanted to do and I said, "call, text, camera, gps, and the occasional web use" – he basically said, "get an iphone 5."
    IDK what your friend's rationale was if you are going to have the phone for years at a time.

    Despite what Tim Cook has done with the line up, Jobs philosophy of routine dropping support for older devices actually reflected how consumer behavior needs to occur in order to have a great experience (alternatively not introducing new devices only, improve usage aspects over the same set of targets), where as in Cook's era, the oldest supported devices have thus far always had what I would describe as an effectively unusable experience compared to all the other devices supported, where as that never occurred with how Jobs managed product support.

    Typically older devices in the Cook era have had better experiences with minor OS iterations but with the initial release of a major version they were very poor experiences.

    Apple's rapid dropping of product support has been a historical advantage with respect to third party development ease and quality of end user products, so I think this is a regrettable change to continue support for legacy devices for longer periods of time (most evidently seen in the longevity of iPad support and iPhone incorporation of sensor changes) and one made solely for psychological reasons rather than a technical reality whilst also introducing issues with backwards compatibility that are harmful to product quality and the ability to incorporate new changes across the entire product ecosystem extremely well.

    Anyways, in summary, with Apple it is always the best choice with respect to value to purchase whatever the most recent version is of that product with the caveat to never purchase the very first version of that product (unless you are a gadget enthusiast and anxious to try the product out for some reason and don't care about money).

    The initial cost is higher yes, however long term it is cheaper and less frustrating as new OS/App improvements work very well with no non-trivial latency; as Apple routinely makes very significant changes to its software that enables significantly improved or previously impossible workflows this is much more important than say on the Windows desktop OS where it is routinely advantageous to not upgrade for as long as possible due to no real improvements occurring (or drastically worse quality) or apps not being upgraded for a long time or learning material accessible to lay users being not comparable to that available for the previous version as of yet.

    Apple of course does fuck up horribly every now and then with its app changes, such as iWork 2013 and later being complete shit compared to iWork 5 for users that make use of OS X's unique features heavily. With later updates that is less true, but initially it was like going from InDesign to Microsoft Word both in terms of capability and immediate utility.

    And with all of that being said, in your case, I would stick with an Android phone. Apple's ecosystem is extremely good if you buy into Apple's entire ecosystem as there is tremendous synergy between the devices which make up the ecosystem but without that, the devices are at best equal and the value favors Android or PC in most cases.

    The only time I would say that is not the case is for the Apple MacBook Air*, which fucking rocks both with respect to value and utility even by itself for the mobile use case due to tremendous advantages with OS X in terms of workflows and its excellent real-world battery life and negligible weight and volume OR for the workstation use case at this point in time if you absolutely need as much computational resources per dollar on only one system (the absolutely only case where this is true is video editing) and as much screen real estate as possible OR the latest 5k iMac if you absolutely only want one screen and do not need future upgradability (I personally would not recommend this even in that event, but some people really, really want that form factor and do not keep future ability to change out video cards on a work station in mind)

    * Alternatively, if you are okay with a heavier amount of weight with the device, the Lenova line has very exceptional configurations available with comparable real-world battery life and the ability to swap batteries if you need 24+ hours of continual battery life available at a time, such as if getting stuck in BFE without a power source available for recharging, such as in some shitty airport situations that can arise. I think in this case for the business user who absolutely cannot afford to be inaccessible and therefore has to eliminate even the most fringe possibilities OR for an on the go engineer who needs connectivity not available on a MBA (such as a serial port for debugging devices, wired ports without an adaptor, or inline packet filtering).
    Last edited by MI Redeux; November 27th, 2014 at 02:47 AM.

  2. #62

    Re: Smart Phones

    Ronin:

    I would take a serious look at the Kyocera Hydro line of phones. I have the Hydro Icon (Sprint T-Mobile), and the Hydro Vibe is the most popular one available via Verizon/AT&T. They do everything you are looking for (basic smart phone), they run android (which as a PC User, I feel is superior to the Apple line, unless you just REALLY do not know what you are doing), and they are more durable and water resistant than the Samsung line of phones.

    I work in plumbing/Electrical trade, and I constantly am submerged underwater and my phone falls into pools of it often. They take a licking and keep on ticking. And they are INEXPENSIVE.

    I bought my Hydro Icon, no special promotions of any kind, for about $150 out the door. I got a very basic shock absorption case, and I check my e-mail every morning (and this website) from the shower. With the shower on. I've been doing this daily since July. I've dropped it into the water at least 3 times.

    Some of the Samsungs that advertize similar results are not anywhere near as reliable. I've seen even the Otterboxes fail on such phones.

    iPhone 5 is a nice product. But if you haven't already, play around with android. It is a bit more customizable, and it tends to innovate more quickly. The Kyocera phones are sleepers. They will take some serious market share soon.

  3. #63

    Re: Smart Phones

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    Thanks for the heads up. I'm definitely not looking for anything top end at all. A friend asked me what I wanted to do and I said, "call, text, camera, gps, and the occasional web use" – he basically said, "get an iphone 5."
    Frustrated at losing a signal in a converation on my way home yesterday, and unable to use my GPS at the same time, I decided to walk into a Verizon retail store.

    I asked the lady if she could show me the most basic plan for a smart phone, and what phones they had that I might qualify for getting for free with a two year contract, etc.

    She asked me what I used my phone for.

    "Well, I use it for work mostly.To look up plumbing diagrams, electrical diagrams, check metering configurations, order parts, and ussually I'm submerged in liquid in some form of water or another."

    "Uhhh, I mean,t what do you use your phone for?"

    "Isn't that what I just answered?"

  4. #64
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    Re: Smart Phones

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinthalas Tigris View Post
    Ronin:

    I would take a serious look at the Kyocera Hydro line of phones. I have the Hydro Icon (Sprint T-Mobile), and the Hydro Vibe is the most popular one available via Verizon/AT&T. They do everything you are looking for (basic smart phone), they run android (which as a PC User, I feel is superior to the Apple line, unless you just REALLY do not know what you are doing), and they are more durable and water resistant than the Samsung line of phones.

    I work in plumbing/Electrical trade, and I constantly am submerged underwater and my phone falls into pools of it often. They take a licking and keep on ticking. And they are INEXPENSIVE.

    I bought my Hydro Icon, no special promotions of any kind, for about $150 out the door. I got a very basic shock absorption case, and I check my e-mail every morning (and this website) from the shower. With the shower on. I've been doing this daily since July. I've dropped it into the water at least 3 times.

    Some of the Samsungs that advertize similar results are not anywhere near as reliable. I've seen even the Otterboxes fail on such phones.

    iPhone 5 is a nice product. But if you haven't already, play around with android. It is a bit more customizable, and it tends to innovate more quickly. The Kyocera phones are sleepers. They will take some serious market share soon.
    I have an iPhone 5 that I used for ~2 years, and while it is a great phone, I think the form factor is really not awesome. It is so narrow that it is uncomfortable to hold and not unlike a razor blade with how thin it is, additionally it is pretty slippery. It was a good update but the 6 and 6+ improve upon the 5 and 5S by a lot; the image stabilization alone is worth getting the 6+ for. I was taking pictures with the 6+ while moving at ~60-80 mph (passenger) and I was very surprised that none of them had any motion blur with exception to one, and that was only for the most foreground part of the image, very impressive, not sure how they accomplished it.

    I was thinking earlier about in the context of a work laptop in a dusty environment (such as construction), and while not at all rugged, an advantage of designs like the MBA which has no space between any component and only vents passively through the case and through the keyboard is that extremely little dust makes its way into the case. I had not realized that advantage until I was taking one apart and noticed that with exception to a small area nowhere on the inside was any debris present despite not attempting to blow it out for over a year. Contrast that with my desktops and other laptops that do not use such a design, even though I take very good care of them and clean them out regularly, they still are quite annoyingly dust magnets.

    So... I would not recommend a MBA/MBP for the on the go work truck (actual work truck, not the soccer mom SUVs) case, I would really like to see a laptop designed for such a case that utilized the MBA/MBPs design decision to solder everything with no space between the case and parts as that keeps out a huge swathe of debris.

  5. #65
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    Re: Smart Phones

    MI/Tinthalas:

    I did mention keeping the phone a bit longer than most, but he seemed to think holding on to an iphone for a few years isn't a big deal (and that I won't do another 8 year stretch without a new phone).

    I've personally never owned an Apple product, so I definitely appreciate the detailed response. I totally agree with what you said about the dropping support as I do know some people that had older iphones and eventually had to upgrade due to just getting behind.

    I definitely don't mind a heavier device and I'll likely play around with android phones a bit first, too. I am going to check out what Nadiar recommended (Moto G 2014) and some others just to see. Also, thanks for the heads up on the iphone 5... I am pretty tough on my phones and it was one of the main reasons I didn't replace the one I had. Speaking of which, the Kyocera Hydro line oh phones definitely inexpensive.

  6. #66
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    Re: Smart Phones

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    MI/Tinthalas:

    I did mention keeping the phone a bit longer than most, but he seemed to think holding on to an iphone for a few years isn't a big deal (and that I won't do another 8 year stretch without a new phone).

    I've personally never owned an Apple product, so I definitely appreciate the detailed response. I totally agree with what you said about the dropping support as I do know some people that had older iphones and eventually had to upgrade due to just getting behind.

    I definitely don't mind a heavier device and I'll likely play around with android phones a bit first, too. I am going to check out what Nadiar recommended (Moto G 2014) and some others just to see. Also, thanks for the heads up on the iphone 5... I am pretty tough on my phones and it was one of the main reasons I didn't replace the one I had. Speaking of which, the Kyocera Hydro line oh phones definitely inexpensive.
    I personally would definitely get an android phone while taking care to select one which is not made difficult to root by the carrier by default; the reason being that installing roms like CyanogenMod adds incredible longevity to the device and enables much more complex and interesting workflows. I am rather inexperienced with the Android ecosystem compared to most of the board but I have found using CyanogenMod on devices which are not extremely new and therefore have only immature roms available for them for CyanogenMod very pleasant. Yttrium seems an expert on Android. I would definitely get one with a SD card slot on the device though as it adds a lot of utility to it especially in the context of using it for years down the line. It's the feature I like the most on the Android phones. I would likely use Android even in the context of the Apple ecosystem even though Apple's phones are generally well designed and I like them a great deal but moving data around between the device on OS X is rather crude; it is pleasant on Windows though so is just a matter of putting the work into making it comparable rather than somehow intrinsic to Android.

    CynagenMod has a nice wiki for searching for info on how well different devices are supported and information related to carrier choices here: http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Devices#vendor=;

    RE: Apple, I've been using their products for a long time now to various degrees, and at least IME they have been the least fuss and as long as basic precautions are taken, they last for years (although software updates are phased out comparably quicker compared to the PC world and especially compared to Linux where support is a recompilation away for decades old devices or completely different architectures), although there have been some issues with certain models and builds having critical design component failures in an unreasonable short amount of time with particular releases, so it is not a sure thing, but generally their customer service experience is the best I have experienced with only Amazon being comparable in treating its customers like human beings.

    The only Apple device I have not been impressed with at all is the Airport Time Capsule which attempts to integrate a router or bridge and a network storage device targeting usage as a backup disk; it is okay but could be much better even in the context of being targeted for having sane defaults so as to not require additional tinkering to work suitably.There are other setups not particular to Apple that are less expensive which work more reliably and with comparably minimal fuss with many more capabilities for end users who wish to make use of them in the process, so it is just really not worth it at all. Other devices Apple has made I may say, this is not really something I am interested in, but at least its design was sound and polished which is not the case with the Time Capsule IMO.
    Last edited by MI Redeux; December 4th, 2014 at 05:07 AM.

  7. #67

    Re: Smart Phones

    I feel like owning an apple device and being a PC user does yourself a disservice. If you use apple devices, you need to be an apple computer user as well, otherwise you're stuck in the world of bloatware (iTunes).

  8. #68
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    Re: Smart Phones

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinthalas Tigris View Post
    I feel like owning an apple device and being a PC user does yourself a disservice. If you use apple devices, you need to be an apple computer user as well, otherwise you're stuck in the world of bloatware (iTunes).
    This simply isn't true. OS updates, applications, music, etc. are all available over the air. Ditto for making backups. You don't need iTunes anymore. And haven't for nearly three years now.
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  9. #69

    Re: Smart Phones

    Quote Originally Posted by Salamane View Post
    This simply isn't true. OS updates, applications, music, etc. are all available over the air. Ditto for making backups. You don't need iTunes anymore. And haven't for nearly three years now.
    Agree/Disagree. THe devices are mostly self sufficient, but they continue to release the updates for the iTunes software so that they can stil dock, and by doing so, they make the itunes software more bloatware.

    It isn't necessary to dock, but it still is designed to do so, and by doing so, you go 3 years back and lateral.

  10. #70
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    Re: Smart Phones

    It's not "designed to dock". It is possible to dock, and there are edge cases where you would need to dock (mostly around installing iOS updates when your device is low on storage), but for the most part there hasn't been a need to dock since iCloud was launched. If you crack open a new device, you'll notice that it no longer starts by asking for you to plug into a computer, it starts by having you connect to wifi and signing in to iCloud. Many people dislike iTunes, and many people prefer other things to iOS, but there's nothing about iOS that forces one to use iTunes.
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  11. #71

    Re: Smart Phones

    Unless people have large music libraries. In which case they need to dock to sync.

  12. #72
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    Re: Smart Phones

    A second edge case. But they can also usually iTunes Match their way out of that (unless they have a monstrous collection of music not available via iTunes, which absolutely happens). Even given that, what percentage of the populace actually has that issue and therefor must connect to iTunes on their computer? I'll bet it's way less than 1%. So again, nothing is forcing one to use iTunes, for the most part.
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  13. #73
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    Re: Smart Phones

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinthalas Tigris View Post
    I feel like owning an apple device and being a PC user does yourself a disservice. If you use apple devices, you need to be an apple computer user as well, otherwise you're stuck in the world of bloatware (iTunes).
    You don't need to be, you just miss out an enormous swathe of the utility derived from the Apple ecosystem having tremendous synergy with one another. As an example, the AppleTV and iPhone work tremendously well together, although there are aspects of the AppleTV which are annoying without utilizing some external applications such as Beamer. I really, really wish Apple would let people purchase OS X separately and use it on their own hardware configuration as Apple's own hardware choices are often really suboptimal for many contexts, in particular that of an engineering company. If they would simply use parts which allowed for much more ram to be installed it would work out better, but that is not the case and their Mac Pro is insufficient for workstations that will have a long lifespan.

    I really fucking love OS X but not Apple's desktop systems at all, so I never use it there. Hackintosh's is too much hassle and too fragile. I am hoping Windows 10 is less incompetently designed and steals much of OS X's ideas at minimum.

  14. #74

    Re: Smart Phones

    Quote Originally Posted by MI Redeux View Post
    You don't need to be, you just miss out an enormous swathe of the utility derived from the Apple ecosystem having tremendous synergy with one another. As an example, the AppleTV and iPhone work tremendously well together, although there are aspects of the AppleTV which are annoying without utilizing some external applications such as Beamer. I really, really wish Apple would let people purchase OS X separately and use it on their own hardware configuration as Apple's own hardware choices are often really suboptimal for many contexts, in particular that of an engineering company. If they would simply use parts which allowed for much more ram to be installed it would work out better, but that is not the case and their Mac Pro is insufficient for workstations that will have a long lifespan.

    I really fucking love OS X but not Apple's desktop systems at all, so I never use it there. Hackintosh's is too much hassle and too fragile. I am hoping Windows 10 is less incompetently designed and steals much of OS X's ideas at minimum.
    Honestly the modern MacPro is not a real workstation IMO. It is a show piece for the front office. Apple just overly limits the hardware. the iMac for example uses mostly laptop parts. The Mac Pro if talking computing power could be properly defeated by a boring box with parts off Newegg(including the Xeon).

    They would never sell OSX unlocked because pretty much they would lose huge amounts of money, OSX is why people buy Apple machines. After all really macBook is an overpriced machine for what you get but it has OSX. iMac is the same thing, Inferior hardware for too much money but it has OSX.
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  15. #75
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    Re: Smart Phones

    Quote Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker View Post
    Honestly the modern MacPro is not a real workstation IMO. It is a show piece for the front office. Apple just overly limits the hardware. the iMac for example uses mostly laptop parts. The Mac Pro if talking computing power could be properly defeated by a boring box with parts off Newegg(including the Xeon).

    They would never sell OSX unlocked because pretty much they would lose huge amounts of money, OSX is why people buy Apple machines. After all really macBook is an overpriced machine for what you get but it has OSX. iMac is the same thing, Inferior hardware for too much money but it has OSX.
    I know that is why I said I wish they would allow paying for OS X in the use case where you are not buying Apple hardware, even if that included having to write the drivers yourself it would be preferable IMO. The Mac Pro is a workstation for a narrow demographic but it is not a very good value in the long run, in the short term it needs to have much more RAM possible to install for a larger demographic range. ATM it is only 64GB. Thunderbolt 3 will make it much more useful though.

    As that is extremely improbable to occur, I am hopeful that Windows 10 improves greatly, given some recent changes with MS's strategy it may happen. It would be much more convenient if it did; there is a narrow market not addressed with Android manufacturers that MS could dominate in, alternatively Google but they are not interested in making excellent devices at a high markup.
    Last edited by MI Redeux; December 8th, 2014 at 02:46 AM.

  16. #76

    Re: Smart Phones

    So I got a Droid Turbo and what an improvement over the S3. I do not see a huge difference processing wise but I do not run intensive apps, However this thing holds an LTE signal where the S3 barely held onto 3G. And its LTE is almost as fast as being on the computer even with 3 bars.
    "When you name your baby Jeeves...you've pretty much set up his career for life. You don't see many Hit Men, for example, named Jeeves. "Pardon me sir, but I must wack you now."
    — Jerry Seinfeld

    Delmarva 85 Troll Enhancement Shaman Alternate Eclipse

    Never Forget those who gave it all ten years ago.

  17. #77

    Re: Smart Phones

    Quote Originally Posted by FilanFyretracker View Post
    So I got a Droid Turbo and what an improvement over the S3. I do not see a huge difference processing wise but I do not run intensive apps, However this thing holds an LTE signal where the S3 barely held onto 3G. And its LTE is almost as fast as being on the computer even with 3 bars.

    How much did you pay/which provider?

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