A Wild West mmorog would never work.

[Faustus]

Don't forget the epic quality rifles there Raven (ie. Winchester '73)

[Torcer Arcana]

A WW MMO would own if done properly.

Classes could be Gunslingers, Outlaws, Riflemen, Sheriffs, Salon Owners, etc.

You could have a totally in depth weapons skill system – think Fallout. Quick draw, sharpshooting, pistol whipping, double pistols, rifling, shotgun, lasso, whip, etc…

The world could be incredibly complex, detailed, and varied. We have 150 years of myth and cliché to draw from – the Old West Frontier Town, the Saloon, the Stage Coach, the Abandoned Gold Mine, the Badlands, the Native American village, the homestead.

You could have all kinds of “Factions.” The Native Americans, the Union Army, the Townies, the Loner, the Outlaws, the “magnificent Seven” style heroes, etc.

Hell, you could add Player made cities which would populate an empty frontier and replicate the Frontier cities dotting the old west. These cities could then hire combat players to guard them against the inevitable band of outlaws PCs. There’s an entire game of non Combat skills and classes and an actual reason to build a world.

[Gnizmo]

Make it a cross between Planetside and SW:G and you could have a good game. Player run cities would be great. Set-up some random mines for tradeskills, and have ammo and guns be what you need to collect. Have the rest be more pvp based than pve and you have a profitable game I bet.

[Goladus]

You hit the nail on the head.

All the examples miss the mark, because the intended goal, in those stories, was to get rich and retire.

Ok, so players acquire gold, jewelry, and silver, then what.

Players want gold in mmorpgs, so they can buy special items or power ups, and that's the point I was making. In a pure Old West setting there's only so many ways to trick out a gun before it stops being realistic.

Like I said; there's simply not enough phat l3wt to keep a traditional Old West mmorpg going.

At least not for long.

So, just don't base the game around powering up your combat skills with item acquisition. Make loot acquisition important in other ways, and use alternative methods of powering up combat skills.

You could include features of a first person shooter, where the weaponry options are limited but not extremely limited. That is, most players should have access to most weapons, and weapon choice becomes more important than weapon power. The role of experience and levelling up would be limited, progress would come from gaining faction and exploring new areas. Money would be a measuring stick. Experience would unlock weapon skills such as those Torcer mentioned.

You could make the game alt-centric. Maybe enforce a family-tree structure or something. Your main reaches a point where you can start having sons and daughters, which you control as alts. They'd bear your family name, so other players would always recognize you, but they'd have their own fortunes in addition to the fortunes of the family as a whole. Player dynasties could compete with each other. At that point money could be useful for all sorts of things (horses, coaches, buildings, etc.).

[Ringo]

You hit the nail on the head.

All the examples miss the mark, because the intended goal, in those stories, was to get rich and retire.

So what? In fantasy novels, the goal is to save the kingdom and retire. The fantasy MMORPG industry has struggled on despite that.

Players want gold in mmorpgs, so they can buy special items or power ups, and that's the point I was making. In a pure Old West setting there's only so many ways to trick out a gun before it stops being realistic.

Who really gives a shit about realism? When it stops being fun, that's when it's a problem.

[Ringo]

You could have all kinds of “Factions.” The Native Americans, the Union Army, the Townies, the Loner, the Outlaws, the “magnificent Seven” style heroes, etc.

Ranchers versus the farmers!

Hell, you could add Player made cities which would populate an empty frontier and replicate the Frontier cities dotting the old west. These cities could then hire combat players to guard them against the inevitable band of outlaws PCs. There’s an entire game of non Combat skills and classes and an actual reason to build a world.

Yeah, player-made content on the frontier would be a natural fit. Hell, ghost towns abandoned by previous players would not only be allowable, they'd be an expected part of the genre.

[Ninetoes]

A Deadlands MMO would be cool

[Vdou]

Like I said; there's simply not enough phat l3wt to keep a traditional Old West mmorpg going.

WTB Poncho of Invulnerability PST.

You could make the game alt-centric. Maybe enforce a family-tree structure or something. Your main reaches a point where you can start having sons and daughters, which you control as alts. They'd bear your family name, so other players would always recognize you, but they'd have their own fortunes in addition to the fortunes of the family as a whole. Player dynasties could compete with each other. At that point money could be useful for all sorts of things (horses, coaches, buildings, etc.).

I really really really like this idea.

[DmitrytheWizzy]

Abandoned mines... liscenced content like the Lone Ranger...

Gun fights for PvP.... Healer classes in the form of the town doc. Property development in saloons and cattle ranches....

Sergio Leone movie background music... scars from wounds.... bounties on players...

God it's as natural a fit as exists outside Pirates and Fantasy.

[camrael]

Cattle drives, wagon caravans, settlers, barn raising (a communal way to work together), railroads, etc...

[Vdou]

I still think you'd have to leave the Native population out. I think the first time I saw a Native American Shaman casting spells I would be kind of offended.

[Raven]

1. So what? In fantasy novels, the goal is to save the kingdom and retire. The fantasy MMORPG industry has struggled on despite that.

2. Who really gives a shit about realism? When it stops being fun, that's when it's a problem.

1. Because the fantasy genre can always have a bigger magic sword just around the corner. There's no historical evidence of a handheld post Civil War Gatling gun, so that type of super l3wt wouldn't exist, though it's all over the place in the cyber punk genre.


2. The point of my post was that a realistic version of the Wild West wouldn't allow the type of phat l3wt that players crave, and w/o the dangling carrot the fun would be short lived.

Of course a steam punk mmorpg would have a better chance of success, but that's not what I was describing.

[Gnizmo]

Perfect historical accuracy would make the game suck no matter how you tried to do it, and you don't need to have an item centric MMO. CoH does well for itself without gear. You could easily remove gear from the equation and still succeed.

[Ringo]

I still think you'd have to leave the Native population out. I think the first time I saw a Native American Shaman casting spells I would be kind of offended.

Or just take out magic.

[Senzei]

Like I said; there's simply not enough phat l3wt to keep a traditional Old West mmorpg going.

The loot in fantasy game sucks donkey balls. I'm sick of endless progressions of marginal statistic upgrades. I'm sick of having my character's appearance dictated by whatever loot is 'best' for my current level.

Bring on Deadlands MMO. Not sure how they'd incorporate the cards and poker chips though.

[Ringo]

1. Because the fantasy genre can always have a bigger magic sword just around the corner.

Not realistically. Why don't the NPCs from the raid zones conquer the entire game world? Why don't the boss NPCs slaughter the armies of their enemies?

No successful MMORPG is realistic. Arguing that a realistic MMORPG won't succeed is like taking the controversial stand that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow.

[miber]

Bah, screw 'phat lewt'. I'm sure you could come up with some other carrot, if people require that to have fun (maybe some form of fame or infamy or something).

If I were to design a Wild West MMO it wouldn't be an RPG, it would be an FPS with some RPG elements (quests, factions, guilds/groups, building towns, maybe some PvE, etc) - not just WoW in the wild west.

[Torcer Arcana]

FPS DOES seem like a good idea for a gun fighting game, BUT I think a reflex based MMO could be severely limiting. I love MMOS, but I'm meh on FPS, especially since I suck at them. I hear what you’re saying about MMO combat mechanics; I wish there was a 3rd way.

[Yirr]

I hate westerns :/ Probably cause I live in an area with cowboys, abandoned mines, and ghost towns. It's really not all that cool. Too dirty.

[Vdou]

FPS DOES seem like a good idea for a gun fighting game, BUT I think a reflex based MMO could be severely limiting. I love MMOS, but I'm meh on FPS, especially since I suck at them. I hear what you’re saying about MMO combat mechanics; I wish there were a 3rd way.

Think DDO combat., that could be fun.